Hinged vs. disturbed gum

[Scanstamps]

Even though I've been "playing with stamps" for almost 40 years, I still find certain gaping holes in my knowledge.

"Disturbed gum" seems to be a somewhat "American" term (at least I rarely run into it in connection with my collecting area-- Scandinavia)-- and I sometimes ponder the question of when gum goes from being "hinged" to being "disturbed." Or does "disturbed gum" automatically presume that the gum has been moved around as a result of something other than hinge attachment? I don't handle that many US stamps-- but it strikes me there's a very nebulous line (or possibly no line, at all) between "heavily hinged" and "disturbed gum."

Does anyone know if there's an actual definition of disturbed gum vs. just a heavily hinged stamp?

Always curious,

--Peter

[AWorldOfStamps]

I consider disturbed gum to be when the stamp has not been properly stored and you see some minor imperfections in the gum where it was previously affixed to another surface but the gum is basicly 100% present. Sometimes the line of a hingless mount shows or the stamp's gum was lightly stuck on another stamp or surface, but it is obvisous it was not from being "hinged" in a stamp album.

[michael78651]

I agree with AWORLDOFSTAMPS, and would add that it would also include unused stamps that may have a little bit of water damage on the gum. Disturbed gum is above and beyond the hinge mark.

[noernberg]

I agree. In my opinion, "Hinged" is just one category of "disturbed gum", actually involving a hinge. To me, disturbed gum can be caused by just about anything else... moisture, improper mounting techniques, etc. The term may have gained popularity because some people didn't want to call a stamp hinged when there was never a hinge applied (technically speaking), but the gum is clearly not unblemished. I would say, though, that to call a stamp "Mint Never Hinged with disturbed gum" really makes no sense, either. I would propose that a stamp should not be called MNH if there are gum disturbances. Although it may be true that a hinge was never applied, the fact that there is disturbed gum (to me) erases any premium that may be on the stamp for being never hinged. I'm sure there are several opinions out there, and that is probably just an issue of semantics.

[AWorldOfStamps]

I agree it erases the total premium value, but I consider it a "step above" the hinged stamp and like to tell it like it is.

[parian]

A quick review of PSE certs indicates that they also do not consider a never hinged stamp with disturbed gum to be nh. At least I've not seen both terms used on the same cert.

[Scanstamps]

Thanks for the feedback.

In a way it makes sense that there's no such thing as "NH, disturbed gum" since NH is really (at least to my way of thinking) more a statement about premium quality than HOW the gum got to be the way it is.

What's interesting is that in the Scandinavian countries (possibly elsewhere, too) the literal translation of the equivalent of "NH" comes out something along the lines of "postal fresh" or "post office fresh," thus not referencing hinges at all.

--Peter

[michael78651]

Never hinged probably doesn't even need to be used.

Mint = as you said, postal fresh, as the stamp came from the post office (no hinges)
Unused = hinged

Then there are all the other qualifiers. Disturbed gum actually means damaged gum beyond what hinging does to the stamp, etc..

Wonder if we will ever come up with simple terminology where one word describes a stamp's condition, rather than:

unused, lightly hinged with tiny hinge thin in the center, small finger print on back caused by holding down stamp in order to write catalog number and value from the 1975 Scott catalog in ink on the back and crossing that value out and adding the new catalog value in subsequent years (back of stamp actually looks like a spreadsheet), one pulled perforation on the right side with two pulled perfs on the bottom and trimmed perf or two on the top, slightly off-center about 0.000369%, sharp color on the front, but a slight surface scrape and a crease on the top half, graded 99 and slabbed.

[Bherman]

How would you define off-setting or toning on the gum? The off-setting is natural from production, so it s a flaw? With some older stamps, toning is almost inevitable (I guess the gum they used is the culprit). Whats your opinions?

[noernberg]

Unfortunately, I would think it would be not so different than the effect of a straight edge on older stamps. It was a completely natural part of stamp manufacture, and I think are actually more rare (and fun to try to complete plate positions), but the general philatelic public treats these as pseudo faults, too, probably because they fly in the face of the human desire for symmetry and order, and overall can be argued to have less eye appeal. Everyone has their own opinions (and they are all right, because this is a matter of personal preference).

[librarianc]

Michael78651:

Where did you ever find my 1996 StampAuctions.com listing for that Canadian 3-penny beaver???

[Scanstamps]

Michael, clearly you have great mastery of "accurate descriptions." (Note to self: buy stamps from this man)

Kidding aside, the Swedish system (as created by the Swedish Philatelic Federation-- their equivalent of the APS) comes as close to being a "one word description" as any I have seen-- it makes more sense to me than the PSE defined "graded" stamps because it's actually descriptive.

You have a three-number grade (for example 4,3,5) with the first digit describing "physical quality" (perfs, creases, thins, tears, etc.), the second digit describing centering, and the third digit describing the gum (for mint) or the cancel (for used). "5" is the top designation, "0" is the bottom.

In the example case, "4,3,5" tells me that the stamp may have as a "maximum defect" a discrete pencil note or expert mark on the back, and a faint corner perf bend (4xx); has F-VF centering; i.e. may be 50% off-center in one direction or 25% off center in two (x3x); and (since I collect used) has a S.O.N. upright readable cancel (xx5). Alternately, the "5" could mean post office fresh original gum, if the stamp is unused.

I doubt there's such a thing as a perfect system, but that one certainly goes part of the way.

--Peter

[noernberg]

Wow, I really like this! Could you set something up in the Wiki that defines these grades, and list the defects that would constitute the various grade levels? Of course, if this is copyrighted, then I guess you may not be able to do this without proper acknowledgements at least.

[michael78651]

John, you'd be surprised how many stamps look like a spreadsheet on the back. It's unbelievable. I've even seen it where the selvage is attached to the stamp, but they wrote on the back of the stamp in ink and left the selvage MNH! Check my supplemental pages in my store for more on that and what I've found through the years.

There are so many stamps now where the paper is becoming toned as a result of the acids in the gum. Scott catalog states that you shouldn't even consider gum condition for Iran (I forget the years involved), but this is happening to all countries now. Someone once speculated that if all stamps with gum do not have the gum washed off, that those stamps will eventually all be destroyed.

[lusi222]

How would you define off-setting or toning on the gum? The off-setting is natural from production, so it s a flaw? With some older stamps, toning is almost inevitable (I guess the gum they used is the culprit). Whats your opinions?

What is offsetting? I know toning means the discoloration of the gum/stamp right?

One thing I saw recently as I worked up this latest batch of mint US stamps is gum that looked 'pooled' in spots. I did not put those in the lots, but I am curious if that would be considered a flaw.

Cindy