Historical Addendum's

[michael78651]

Regarding the French and the American Revolution, the French were more opportunistic than helpful. They consistently refused to bring troops into play during the war, insisting that we show them (the French) that we can win decisive battles. Well, if we could do that all by ourselves, we wouldn't need the help from them. Franklin wanted to take things slow with the French, but John Adams (who was in France with Franklin) wanted to apply pressure to make the French take an active participatory role with us. Adams' impatience riled Franklin who sent derogatory reports back to Philadelphia about Adams. Adams was eventually recalled from France. It was not until victory was almost won that the French decided to provide the military assistance we had been requesting. We received more help from Holland (loans to pay for the war) than from the French.

While the inaction of the French caused consternation on the part of Adams, Washington and others, there were political reasons for their inaction. Being mortal enemies with the British, France was trying to be careful not to get itself stuck in a world war with the British. It didn't work.

[RazzmatazzComics]

What did you think of HBO's John Adams? I enjoyed it, myself.

http://www.hbo.com/john-adams/index.html

[michael78651]

The show was excellent. The book is even better and a fantastic read. The author David McCullough knows how to take history and place the reader right into the story as if the reader was there.

[youpiao]

What did you think of HBO's John Adams?

I don't get HBO. (I sold my hair to a wig shop.)

Tedski

[RazzmatazzComics]

I don't get HBO.

PM headin' your way.

[dustystamps]

there are some that try and change all of that with their ramblings and try to feel atleast politically correct. Weak move. Some have been found weighed, measured, and wanting. I just a small can of hot ash in a cold country.

Wow....leave for a couple days and a new "inquisition" begins.....let alone a new "War between the States" (ie Virginia and Texas???) and a little "levity" from New Jersey is apparently outlawed...?????

What's the big deal ???.....is there some "unwritten" history here that needs recording???
And who is "they and them" and "we" ??????

First off the hen house was shakin and here they came one by one and I think that we know who they are.

I think I sense a "hidden" conspiracy here....(maybe it could be a new addendum to be added here)
Of course it wouldn't be the first one in history...would it????

Razz... I saw the movie and really liked it!!

Michael....just ordered the book to my kindle since you recommended it!!!!

And to stick to the subject matter here.....

I believe that the true reason that Franklin wanted to go slower with the French was because he was enjoying those French Courtesans too much and wanted more time over there....

So...to everyone here...a cold, frosty and

[youpiao]

Good to see you again, dust.
To address your other points, all i can say is, there's one in every crowd.

Stay thirsty, my friend.

Tedski

[RazzmatazzComics]

[michael78651]

What did you think of HBO's John Adams?

I don't get HBO. (I sold my hair to a wig shop.)

Tedski

LOL. I don't have HBO either. One night on a business trip, I saw that there was an episode of John Adams on HBO. I watched it and told myself to get it when it came out on DVD. I did and watched it almost all the way through in one sitting!

[richd4549]

As Michael, I watched the whole series in one sitting. I just could not turn it off. As for the book I thought it was much better than the movie...as almost every book turned into a movie. I reserved the book at our library and I had to wait almost 3 months before my turn came up. Since it was a nickel a day book I finished it in 10 days. OOPs I am getting off subject

[richd4549]

Regarding the French and the American Revolution, the French were more opportunistic than helpful. They consistently refused to bring troops into play during the war, insisting that we show them (the French) that we can win decisive battles. Well, if we could do that all by ourselves, we wouldn't need the help from them. Franklin wanted to take things slow with the French, but John Adams (who was in France with Franklin) wanted to apply pressure to make the French take an active participatory role with us. Adams' impatience riled Franklin who sent derogatory reports back to Philadelphia about Adams. Adams was eventually recalled from France. It was not until victory was almost won that the French decided to provide the military assistance we had been requesting. We received more help from Holland (loans to pay for the war) than from the French.

While the inaction of the French caused consternation on the part of Adams, Washington and others, there were political reasons for their inaction. Being mortal enemies with the British, France was trying to be careful not to get itself stuck in a world war with the British. It didn't work.

Michael I have to respectfully disagree with the roll of the French during the War. Their initial tactic was to spread the Brithis fleet and troops thin by stationing their ships and troops over many parts of the world from the Carribean to India and beyond. When French officers finally arrived the taught the militia and army The ways of European warfare. Also they designed the plan to defeaft Cornwallis at Yorktown, which I believe wa the pivitol turning point of the war. Were the French intitled to a trade agreement that would have have been more beneficial to there needs to drastially weaken England financially?
I think so. As far as good old Ben I have to agree with dusty he was there for his personal benefit as much as he was for negotiation. If it wasn't for Adams we would still be negotiating today

[michael78651]

Rich, I don't think you disagree with me that much. The French intervention at Yorktown was the end of the war. That's what I said. The French came in when they knew victory was at hand. The French had their issues with the British and yes, they tangled with them all over the world as you stated. As for training, I believe Von Steuben arrived before the French and assisted Washington training the troops.

[dustystamps]

As for training, I believe Von Steuben arrived before the French and assisted Washington training the troops.

I have found this on History .com and found it perhaps relevant to this conversation which I am finding interesting as I really like history...

"Friedrich Wilhelm Rudolf Gerhard August, Freiherr von Steuben, a Prussian military officer, arrives at General George Washington's encampment at Valley Forge on this day ( Feb. 23) in 1778 and commences training soldiers in close-order drill, instilling new confidence and discipline in the demoralized Continental Army.

Baron von Steuben, as he is better known, was the son of a military engineer and became a Prussian officer himself at the age of 17. He served with distinction and was quickly promoted from infantry to Frederick the Great's General Staff. In 1763, at age 33 and with the rank of captain, he was discharged for unknown reasons. His title of freiherr, or baron, came with his subsequent post as chamberlain (or palace manager) to the petty court of Hohenzollern-Hechingen in Swabia, or the southwestern Holy Roman Empire, in what is now Baden-Wuerrtemberg. Employed by an indebted prince, von Steuben searched for more lucrative employment in foreign armies. The French minister of war recommended von Steuben to Benjamin Franklin as a resource to the Continental Army in 1777. Franklin in turn passed on word of Steuben's availability to George Washington, and by February 23, 1778, he was among the desperate Continentals camped at Valley Forge.

Von Steuben, who did not speak English, drafted a drill manual in French, which Alexander Hamilton and Nathanael Greene then translated into English. The Prussian drill techniques he shared were far more advanced than those of other European armies, let alone those of the ragtag Patriots. The ego-crushing methods of modern boot camp were practiced among the shoeless soldiers of Valley Forge with remarkable efficacy. Most important for 18th-century battle was an efficient method of firing and reloading weapons, which von Steuben forced the Patriots to practice until it became second nature.

Before von Steuben's arrival, colonial American soldiers were notorious for their slovenly camp conditions. Von Steuben insisted on reorganization to establish basic hygiene. He demanded that kitchens and latrines be put on opposite sides of the camp, with latrines facing a downhill slope. (Just having latrines was novelty to the Continental troops who were accustomed to living among their own filth.)

On the merit of his efforts at Valley Forge, Washington recommended that von Steuben be named inspector general of the Continental Army; Congress complied. In this capacity, von Steuben propagated his methods throughout the Patriot forces by circulating his Blue Book, entitled Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States."

So in all fairness to Franklin... he did find a little time to help out with this arrangement...

It was interesting to note that Von Steuben was a Prussian....

[michael78651]

Thanks for that. I had not known of the French recommendation regarding Von Steuben. When the topics are good, I love learning something new like this.

[dustystamps]

Thanks for that. I had not known of the French recommendation regarding Von Steuben.

I never knew just how important and critical to our independence Von Steuben really was...glad they (French) never hired him
A bit more about the "Blue Book"

"To correct the conditions that prevailed, he set to work immediately and wrote drill movements and regulations at night and taught them the following day to a model company of 120 men selected from the line.

To ensure continuity and uniformity, von Steuben, by then a major general and the Army Inspector General, wrote the first Army field manual in 1779, The Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States, commonly referred to as the Blue Book. The drill procedures initiated at Valley Forge were not changed for 85 years, until the American Civil War, and many of the drill terms and procedures are in effect today." Quoted from History of Drill
http://www.drillpad.net/DPhistory.htm

vonsteuben.jpg

For more of how the "Blue Book still guides our NCO's and a group called the "President's 100"
http://www.army.mil/article/29717/After_230_years__the___039_Blue_Book__039__still_guides_NCOs/

On the lighter side....(re: Truman)

I found a period after the S on my SC#1499, does this mean I have found an error?????