I did not authorize "Free shipping"

[turtledragon]

A short time ago I received an order for 35 lots (individual stamps). By my standing instructions, shipping charges should have been $1 for the first 10 lots, & $.25 for each additional 10 lots: thus $1.75. The buyer paid right away through PayPal, and his invoice there listed shipping as "Free". I messaged him informing him that it was a mistake, and asking him to send the correct shipping cost -- I have had no response. I also emailed BidStart about it, and they said the buyer must have changed the invoice himself, and offered no further redress. BUT, I notice that the notification of the sale sent to me by Bidstart, also says "Free" shipping (and, I assume from that, their invoice to him did as well). The amount is small, so I have sent the stamps he paid for, but have blocked him from future bids.

Has anyone encountered this kind of thing before? And, why should a buyer be able to make any unauthorized invoice changes at all?

I am adding to all my listings the instruction not to pay until after requesting a combined invoice from me -- and that any alterations to an invoice will invalidate the entire transaction.

Thanks,

jno

[Artismia]

Yep! This has happened to me on two occasions.
Once April 24, 2012. There were 90 items. Fortunately for me the buyer noticed the problem and stated;
"When I was putting the large batch of stamps in the shopping cart earlier this week the shipping charge was shown by Bidstart as zero. This may have been because the number of items had gone beyond the number in your shipping cost schedule?"
What a wonderful customer!!! That is indeed what happened on this one.
Again May 7, 2012. There were 100 items on this one. Dumb me didn't change the shipping cost schedule from the April 24 sale. So I just let it go as free.
After the May 7th one I adjusted the cost schedule to 300 items. I figure if someone does indeed purchase 300 items . . . I'll MOST certainly give the FREE SHIPPING!!!

What I'd like to see is a shipping schedule that is ACTUAL cost of shipping (by weight) PLUS a 50¢ handling fee.
Of course this means no buyer could pay until after I send the invoice to them. I have no intention of wanting more for shipping and handling. Some sellers do.

Hope this gets fixed for you!

And, thanks for purchasing from me jno.

Clyde

[philatarium]

The amount is small, so I have sent the stamps he paid for, but have blocked him from future bids.

Once the source of this glitch can be found and repaired, is it really right to potentially lose a repeat customer over $1.75? I don't know that I would do that, especially when the system and checkout showed the shipping was free. ... I suppose the one exception would be if he had overridden your shipping cost with $0.00, but has that been determined yet?

[Mark]

I also emailed BidStart about it, and they said the buyer must have changed the invoice himself, and offered no further redress.

And, why should a buyer be able to make any unauthorized invoice changes at all?

I'm not sure why you would be under this impression, but our staff never indicated that the buyer changed the invoice - which we do not allow. What our staff indicated to you was:

We're not aware of any shipping charges ever being charged other than what the seller has entered before. So this certainly isn't a common issue. We'll have our engineers look into this, to see if we can find an explanation for what has occurred. We'll get back to you soon.

Due to the holiday this week, our staff has not yet had time to thoroughly investigate this issue. So I do apologize for the delay.

However, I've gone ahead and reviewed this matter, and have been able to determine the cause of this issue - which is not a glitch. It's the same issue Artismia described. When you're using a table rate, you specify what amount you want to charge, based on the total number of items purchased. You do so by specifying the amount you want to charge for purchase 'Up To X' items.

What you have set up is as follows:

Shipping Int'l Ship Insurance Int'l Ins.
Up to 10 Items $1.00 $2.00 $0.00 $0.00
Up to 20 Items $1.25 $2.25 $0.00 $0.00
Up to 30 Items $1.50 $2.50 $0.00 $0.00

Which shows on your listings as:
Additional fees also apply based on your total purchase:
Shipping Int'l Ship Insurance Int'l Ins.
1 to 10 Items $1.00 $2.00 $0.00 $0.00
11 to 20 Items $1.25 $2.25 $0.00 $0.00
21 to 30 Items $1.50 $2.50 $0.00 $0.00

So, if someone purchases 31 items, looking up at the table, there is no amount to add to the shipping, because there isn't anything set. That's why our help/instructions on the Shipping Details/Discount page reads: "For your last entry, we recommend using a very large 'Up tp' number, such as 10,000, if you want to ensure your table rate applies to large orders."

So if you want an amount to be charged for 31+ items, you'll need to set that amount (as we recommend just use 'Up To' 10,000 items, to cover your bases). So it's not that there is any glitch happening, the amount you set is being added, you just don't have anything set up for over 30 items currently.

Granted, we could certainly make this a little more clear, but that's what happened in this case. The shipping was calculated as it was set up to be. However, we'll have our engineers look into a way of making this easier to understand/use, to avoid any future confusion.

There's no need to add the disclaimer you noted to your listings however, since you can just update your shipping table accordingly. Also, buyer's can't change your invoice, which we never indicated to you they could.

Additionally, keep in mind that there are essentially two ways you can set up shipping; either using a table rate, or by setting the shipping rate per each individual item. You can combine these two, so keep in mind that as indicated, the table rate you set up is added in addition to any per item costs. So if you set the per item shipping cost of an item to $1.00, and then you also set up a table rate for $1.00 shipping for 1-9 items, and a buyer purchases a single item, they'll pay $1.00 + $1.00 = $2.00 shipping. The easiest way to avoid a situation like this is that if you're going to use a table rate, don't set an individual per item shipping rates.

-Mark

[RazzmatazzComics]

I have a shipping rate for each individual item listed. In my store heading and each listing, I note that I combine shipping, and to please wait for an updated invoice from me before paying. It may be old fashioned, but I prefer the simpler method.

I wonder though.... since BidStart automatically charges my account for FVF's, will this create any problems when I send another invoice to the buyer? It shouldn't, since BidStart doesn't charge FVF's to the shipping charges, correct?

[noernberg]

No. FVF (Final Value Fees) are charged at the time of sale when the item ID is sold (which you can see itemized from your 'Account Details' screen). It is not related to the invoicing of your customers. And you are correct, shipping charges are not subject to FVF (but of course, PayPal fees and the like are).

[cocollectibles]

shipping charges are not subject to FVF (but of course, PayPal fees and the like are).

This sounds like BidStart charges FVF on PayPal fees the seller pays; I think you mean, shipping charges are subject to PayPal fees.

[Mark]

I have a shipping rate for each individual item listed. In my store heading and each listing, I note that I combine shipping, and to please wait for an updated invoice from me before paying. It may be old fashioned, but I prefer the simpler method.

That's actually against our terms and conditions, and you'll need to update your shipping settings:

Shipping and Handling charges are required to be specified using either the per item settings, or the table rate settings available in the Account Details section of the My bidStart area. Combined Shipping and Handling is also required to be specified using the available options on the Shipping Details/Discount page.

The main reason for this policy is because it's not simpler for the buyer to not have your shipping costs set, since they do not know what the shipping costs are ahead of time if you do this. Additionally, it will very negatively affect your sales. When a buyer goes to checkout, they review the total cost of the items, including shipping costs, and select their payment method. If you don't set your additional shipping options correctly, you'll lose many of your sales, because for example, if you have $2.50 shipping per item, and a buyer wants to purchase 3 items, they'll automatically be prompted that the shipping costs will be $7.50. They also can't pay for their purchase at checkout, which the majority of buyers (of store items) do.

-Mark

[Mark]

Also, just to note, when you're selling non-stamps, such as comic books, there are a few extra options you have to make your shipping settings work for you.

For example, if you list single comic listings at $2.95, and listings for 3 comics (in one listing) at $3.95, you can set up your additional shipping rate within the comics category to simply be the base rate, minus (for example) $2.45. That way if a buyer purchases 2 single comic items, they'd pay $2.95 + $0.50, but if they purchased 2 (3) comic items, they'd pay $3.95 + $1.50 shipping, etc.

-Mark

[bennettoons]

. . They also can't pay for their purchase at checkout, which the majority of buyers (of store items) do.

-Mark

This is very true for me -- if I see in a seller's description, "Please wait to receive an invoice from me" I immediately leave the page and abandon purchasing the item!

[RazzmatazzComics]

I have a shipping rate for each individual item listed. In my store heading and each listing, I note that I combine shipping, and to please wait for an updated invoice from me before paying. It may be old fashioned, but I prefer the simpler method.

That's actually against our terms and conditions, and you'll need to update your shipping settings:

Shipping and Handling charges are required to be specified using either the per item settings, or the table rate settings available in the Account Details section of the My bidStart area. Combined Shipping and Handling is also required to be specified using the available options on the Shipping Details/Discount page.

The main reason for this policy is because it's not simpler for the buyer to not have your shipping costs set, since they do not know what the shipping costs are ahead of time if you do this. Additionally, it will very negatively affect your sales. When a buyer goes to checkout, they review the total cost of the items, including shipping costs, and select their payment method. If you don't set your additional shipping options correctly, you'll lose many of your sales, because for example, if you have $2.50 shipping per item, and a buyer wants to purchase 3 items, they'll automatically be prompted that the shipping costs will be $7.50. They also can't pay for their purchase at checkout, which the majority of buyers (of store items) do.
Also, just to note, when you're selling non-stamps, such as comic books, there are a few extra options you have to make your shipping settings work for you.

For example, if you list single comic listings at $2.95, and listings for 3 comics (in one listing) at $3.95, you can set up your additional shipping rate within the comics category to simply be the base rate, minus (for example) $2.45. That way if a buyer purchases 2 single comic items, they'd pay $2.95 + $0.50, but if they purchased 2 (3) comic items, they'd pay $3.95 + $1.50 shipping, etc.

-Mark

This creates several major problems for me.

1) I have almost 3000 listings with thousands more to add over the next year. (scanning/photos, grading, getting values, listing takes considerable time). In the body of all my listings, I note that I combine shipping, and to wait for an updated invoice from me before paying. No one at BidStart periodically reviews listings, especially from a new seller, to check for errors like this? I have no way to go back and edit the body of all these listings unless I do it one by one, since there is no bulk change option to item descriptions. That would take forever.

2) The reason for asking buyers to wait for an updated invoice concerning shipping is to save them money. In many cases, it costs more to ship a single comic than to buy a single comic. I hate shipping single comics, unless they are high dollar value ones, because I feel it's a waste of money for shipping. I'd like to encourage multiple orders. This way I can package/box them up and weigh it. Then I could type in the weight and zip code on USPS.com and get an EXACT cost for shipping to the buyer, which is what I would charge them.

3) When I first joined, my first post here was about the trouble I was having setting shipping charges. There is no shipping calculator like on feebay. We really need this here. Stamps, postcards, and baseball cards are all extremely light and small. Multiples of these items do not drastically alter shipping costs. Comics do. They are larger, heavier, and come with halfbacks, fullbacks, mylar, mylites, polypropylene bags, etc. What you suggest just doesn't work for comics. There are too many factors involved. This is why we could really use a shipping calculator with multiple options and prices. Let me explain....

Depending on the comic (and where the buyer lives), it will be sent media, priority, or parcel post. Low value moderns to a nearby buyer can be sent media. It's much cheaper and still gets there in the same amount of time, as opposed to a buyer who lives on the west coast who would get upgraded to parcel post or priority (again, depending on the comic(s) replaceable value if something should go wrong). Since there is no way for a buyer to choose for themselves, I have to do it for them. As a result, I end up eating extra charges for upgrades, myself. If it only costs me 90 cents more to upgrade from media to priority, I end up doing it.

There are online stores like mycomicshop (on feebay), who undercut everybody in pricing, by pricing moderns at $1.35, but charge $4.00 shipping. We all know it does not cost $4.00 to ship a single $1.35 comic book. I've been setting up the same comics at $2.25 with a $2.95 shipping fee. Same total cost, right? But to a buyer, they see the lower comic price first, and buy from them. (This also encourages multiple orders with combined shipping.) But I haven't been willing to do that, because I do not want to cheat BidStart out of FVFs, since you do not charge FVFs on shipping.

You have major comic book dealers on here who are doing no business whatsoever.....

HQComics (member since Jan 2010) with over 16,000 listings, only has a feedback of (21) in two and a half years? They are charging $5.00 shipping for $1.99 priced comics. It doesn't cost $5.00 to ship a comic, but for a major dealer I guess it's just easier to list at $5.00 shipping, since there is no shipping calculator here, or a way to let the buyer determine what shipping method he/she prefers. From their item description....

Shipping$5.00 (to United States)
Save On S/HWhen you buy more items from this seller!
S/H on Additional Items is only $0.25 each.

and then further down it reads....

Shipping is $5.00 (for standard-size comics , up to 4 comics) in a box. Combine auctions to save on postage. Shipping for the USA is via Priority Mail generally or UPS delivery for heavier packages, insurance extra. INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMERS : Email us for acceptable ways to pay and shipping options, before you place an order. Thanks! See the item's description for more accurate pricing for each item we have up for sale. Pricing is for USA only.

kochcom (member since Mar 2010) with over 11,000 listings, only has a feedback of (18) in over two years? They have a similar shipping structure to HQComics....


Shipping$5.00 (to United States)
Shipping NoteSeller may not offer combined S/H discounts.
Click for Full Shipping Details
Will Ship To
Internationally (Worldwide)
Shipping & Handling
$5.00 (to United States)
Insurance
Not Offered
Type Of Service
Mail - Media

AFTER the first $5.00 shipping, add only 25 cents for each additional win/buy. We will refund everything after $8 shipping


4) International shipping.... No one knows beforehand what it costs to ship around the world, until you get the weight of the package and the buyer's address. Then you can check on your options/prices. Hence the need to wait for an updated invoice. A seller could just list an exorbitantly high rate to cover himself (which I see often), but that just discourages sales.

Something is very wrong here, Mark. Those two sellers should be doing much better than they are. Stamps are very tiny and light. The weight difference between 1 stamp and 100 stamps is negligible. The difference between 1 comic and 100 comics with backing boards and bags is huge. I only used those two sellers because they are the biggest and have hundreds of thousands of sales on feebay. I realize the buyer traffic is larger over there, but they should still be doing better here than what they are currently doing. Could you help us non-stamp sellers out here? We would really appreciate it, I know I would. The only solution I can think of is to have a shipping calculator with multiple shipping options for different zip codes made available. Please take some time to think about what I've posted before responding. Future sellers of non-stamp items will be interested in your reply. Thanks for your time.

Bill

[RazzmatazzComics]

. . They also can't pay for their purchase at checkout, which the majority of buyers (of store items) do.

-Mark

This is very true for me -- if I see in a seller's description, "Please wait to receive an invoice from me" I immediately leave the page and abandon purchasing the item!

I guess you are talking about stamps? Why would you not want to wait for a seller of heavier items who is trying to save you money on multiple purchases? We can get an EXACT cost for the total weight of your items, and charge you much less than a generic shipping fee model. What if the buyer is local and wants to pick up the merchandise? Doesn't it benefit them to wait for an updated invoice with no shipping fees? It seems like you may be only thinking of your own circumstances. Every sale is unique and the generic shipping model leaves a lot to be desired.

[richd4549]

Raz, Comic books do not qualify for Media mail because of the advertising. We have all done it and gotten away with it most of the time. If USPS decides to open the package the buyer will have to pay a First class/Priority Mail fee. The chances are slim they will be inspected but is it worth the hassle and cost if they are, especially for a larger heavy package.

[RazzmatazzComics]

Rich, I don't want to get into the media mail thing for comics. It never ends.

I have spoken to my mailman, post office, and even e-mailed the main office. They all say it's ok to ship comics media mail. The advertisements are old and outdated and no longer good. These are collectible books, which are eligible for media. Not every comic even has ads in it. Hardbacks and graphic novels do not. I have been informed that any comic over 6 months old is eligible, since the ads are no longer valid. Just about every seller offers media mail because most buyers of inexpensive comics request media mail. To not offer media mail is suicide for comic sellers, since most buyers want that cheaper option. 1 out of every 10,000 shipments may get inspected, and even then they are still allowed even though they have comics in them. This a debate that could go on forever, because the US Post Office can't come up with a definitive ruling. My PO welcomes the business , as they should, because we all know how desperate they are for business.

[richd4549]

I have shipped marked "Graphic Novels" and have not been challenged. My PO refused to let me ship Media Mail knowing they were comics.